Overall Effect is at least conceivable for Clinton to lose this year, but I don’t know that this score sheet leaves enough room for Grenada to take it from Clinton. Homewood is the only group that has even a remote shot at Clinton in vocals, and that again depends on scoresheet and panel.
For choreography, Oak Mountain matches them in precision, but falls behind on strength/intensity and content. Homewood matches them in strength/intensity, far exceeds in content, falls slightly behind in precision (this is mostly in the opener and the transition between the boys number and dance break afterwards). Those are the only two groups this year that could touch Clinton in choreo, let alone actually beat them in a caption that they haven’t lost since 2011.
Clinton choreo is always stunning, such a well choreographed and clean group. The vocal discussion is interesting. I think that it can be hard to understand why Clinton scores so well vocally for people, particularly because its so different than what I think most associate with good show choir vocals. It's not flashy or loud, its "just" incredibly in tune, nuanced singing (with what is very close to my personal preference of choral tone) which I think is just more difficult to appreciate. I have not seen their show this year, but assuming that it contains all the staples of a good Clinton show it's hard to imagine them losing a caption. Not impossible, but certainly unlikely. There is something about Clinton shows that just scratch an itch for me - pure class.
I heard from somebody at Homewood last week that Network's vocals were crazy good and nobody at that comp was close to them. Factor in that building or the stage or something, just sucks the life out of all sound. Wonder how good they'd be where the sound is good. I heard Clinton live tonight they were very good, but not the strongest show or vocally, as they have been lately. The things is they just don't make mistakes in any area, no place that a judge can mark them down.
Clinton has a reputation that has been well earned over the years. The facts speak for
themselves, when you won something like 100 out of 116 comps you competed in. Well
it's a fact you must be good, and are good every year. See my post above, they just don't
make mistakes, and don't get marked down in any area.
Isn’t the panel thing true for every competition? I’d argue that Franklin central, Carmel, and center grove from Indiana can outsing Clinton. The one thing Indiana show choirs do well is SING down. Clinton is southern show choir. Homewood is Clinton lite. Grenada doesn’t try to replicate Clinton and their show isn’t as packaged. Shows that are too clean are, to me, not as interesting. Even though the goal is to be as perfect as possible. I love Clinton since their 2010 clocks show. They do April Janes choreo well buuut center grove can sing circles around 90% of groups. Once they really understand April’s choreo, they’ll be top 3 nationally. They’ll have to go through John Burroughs, Burbank, and los al tho.
For context: I’m from Indiana, I was in Lawrence central The Central Sound 06-08 and 1. Show choir has evolved tremendously since then 2. Each state has its own style and they’ve evolved too.
Ohio: great visuals always not so much great singing
Illinois: choreo dance is supreme sometimes good vocals mostly medium vocally
Southern show choir (all southern states) try to mimic Clinton and don’t really do that well at all
California: musical theater with big budgets and choirs riddled with talented kids who could all be soloists
Eastern show choir is Ohio and Illinois mixed but less “good” in both choreo & visual.
Minnesota: they have a unique style that doesn’t translate that well outside of MN
Same for Wisconsin
At this particular contest: Clinton will sweep but I think Grenada won’t be far behind.
I’d classify East show choir as more of a hybrid of everything. Daniel hand for example very much resembles Iowa/California styles. Traditionally Lowell, somerset and shepherd hill too but they have all gone different directions as of late. Waltham and South Windsor (while Waltham is more themed as of late) are very much Midwest inspired but less “good choreo” I feel is a great downplay of those two groups abilities since last time groups like Loveland, Cosby, mt Zion 2019, and Chesterton have all places behind them in choreography at comps. I feel like New England/New York/Pennsylvania is truly evolving to meet the level of a lot more of the country as of late. Per Waltham beating Troy tonight at FC. I also love the creativity of groups such as Bishop Hendricken, Tantasqua, Scranton.
To clarify! By no means am I upset by your analysis I just feel northeast show choir is a large question mark around the country currently and rightfully so. We are secluded and definitely don’t have just one identity but I think that’s the joy of our competitions. There always a different feeling and performance happening and you never know what will
Happen. Also we are all so close up here that a lot of our vibe is just from working with each other to grow and get better
I think a competition featuring Clinton against CG/Carmel/FC would be terrific spectating, I hope we get that sometime soon.
I think that the conversation about styles has some basis, but I think we should be careful of classifying them too heavily. Even within Indiana we are starting to see a split (in my opinion) in approach between CG/Carmel/FC and even other groups in the area like Zionsville and Fishers. I’d argue that those choirs all have distinct identities outside of just singing well. The east has the northeastern circuit with a massive diversity of approach between groups like Daniel Hand and Waltham or even going further down the coast to see Clover Hill or Manchester. Comparing across regions can be difficult and there’s always going to be an exception to a rule.
That’s for sure fair. I like using influence a lot when looking at us up here. And of course bringing Virginia into that idea creates an even more broad idea of what show choir is out this way. I love the diversity the country has currently in how they “show choir”! Also this year and last year I feel as though so many more groups are branching out from what they are used to
I’m a lover of it all. Show choir as we know it started in Indiana. I loathe the state contest sheet. It misses nuance and rewards non creativity. I agree tho eastern show choir is an amalgamation of everything. Chesterton is a small school so I wouldnt Take them losing as a big deal. They lose to larger Indy groups regularly too. 10 years ago I the top Indy groups were a little different. Carmel, the most notable group as they were the second group to exist. I love That kids get to sing and dance all over the country. ESP in a tune where many states are cutting money for arts.
As a southern performer you have southern all wrong. We all don’t try to be like Clinton. We try to beat Clinton. Compared to other states, I think we primarily focus on vocals and choreography at the same time. However, vocals trumps choreography. Look at groups like West Jones. They have FANTASTIC vocals. It’s all very tall sounds from them. Brio in finals changes their vocals dramatically in finals at NEJ Classic. Other than vocals, you can watch any other group and you will know we love our dance breaks. Dance breaks are where southern show choir is at its best choreography wise. For Clinton (and the rest of the southern show choir scene), vocals are not who can sing the loudest. It is about who can perform their music with accurate dynamics, diction, and with the best effect. We aren’t trying to be like Clinton even though historically they are the best show choir in the nation. That could change one day, but for right now, theres a reason why they don’t compete that much. That is because they are so good with vocals, choreography, and character of their performers that it is almost impossible to beat them.
Clinton used to go to Midwest some and compete, not sure if they have done it lately.
It seems they are staying more in the South and hosting show choir Nationals in Nashville.
I know they are going to Biloxi and are hosting SCN, anybody know if they are competing anywhere else this year.
You also have to keep in mind that majority southern choirs have a plethora of athletes. Clinton is home to an amazing basketball program, so they have to accommodate to their athletes in the spring semester. It would be nice to see them and other groups travel more, but they're working as hard to make sure everyone is thought about. Plus, Attache went head to head with a phenomenal ATSC last year in Orlando, so they do travel and face big names when they can.
I would like to offer up some gentle pushback against the notion that Homewood is Clinton lite. I may be misinterpreting the meaning behind this, but Homewood has established themselves in quite a unique way. Personally, I think they will end this season with full sweeps (even when they travel to California to compete).
There is some truth to Homewood and Clinton being like each other. In 2011, Clinton out of nowhere has a super dark opener, and then Homewood did that in 2012. In 2012, Clinton had mirrors, and in 2013 Homewood had mirrors. Clinton 2013 had a black/white costumes, and in 2014 Homewood had black/white costumes. Add to that the fact that Dave Fehr has arranged for both groups for a long time and both use April James choreo, so it’s not necessarily wrong to say that Homewood developed in the shadows of Clinton.
However, for the purposes of this year, Homewood certainly does not feel like Clinton lite. I’d almost argue that Clinton feels like Homewood lite this year with how much Homewood has recently invested in stage tech, in addition to having highly technical vocal arrangements and choreography that nobody else can do, and then executing both at a ridiculously high level that shouldn’t even be possible for high school kids. If that sounds familiar, it’s because that’s where Clinton was in the early to mid 2010s. Homewood this year very well may be like what we’re used to seeing from Clinton, especially in the format of the show, but comparing the two, it may be time to think about if Clinton is still the king, undefeated or not.
